Top 10 fallacies about SGI

No offense

...but I don't have the energy for another one of these discussions. Yes, they misrepresent themselves. No, it's not good. But I can't think of anything new to say about it that I haven't said before.

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by: brooke @ Fri May 07, 2010 at 18:51:10 PM CDT

funny?

What is the point of this list? Did anyone get a laugh out of it? To me it seemed like a bunch of non-sequitors assembled by someone with an axe to grind. My suggestion would be to add more intelligence or more humour.
As far as misrepresentation goes the detractors exceed the propaganda.

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by: clown hidden @ Tue May 11, 2010 at 11:48:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I got a chuckle out of it...

after 30 yrs in the gakkai I've heard so many variations on what's listed here so many times - and much, much more! what people are capable of saying, and actually believing, never fails to make me laugh.

and I really didn't see this as anyone having an axe to grind (I could be wrong, certainly wouldn't be the first time!), but it's a pretty funny compilation reflecting the ridiculousness of it all.

hopefully, in time, everyone will be able to move beyond the uselessness of 'my faith (or understanding, or mentor, or dogma...) is better than yours', and get down to the business of actually creating a better world - goodness knows there's plenty to do!

now, please forgive me for running... I visited a temple member to chant and I think I've come down with the flu!  :O)

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Tue May 11, 2010 at 12:57:34 PM CDT

not meant to be funny

10. SGI is dedicated to world peace.
(Hard to deny.)
That's why SGI builds palatial monuments to itself and Daisaku Ikeda. To secure peace.
(If you don't like monuments you don't like monuments, if you don't like the SGI you don't like the SGI.)

9. SGI is a humble,
(Never heard that.)
diverse organization that welcomes everyone.
(Seems to be the consensus of all who have investigated.)
That's why SGI must attack perceived enemies, critics, and former members. To protect a good and fragile organization.
(No I think it's more on principle. People attack you with lies, strike back with truth.)

more later

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by: clown hidden @ Tue May 11, 2010 at 18:58:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

hard to deny?

for you, perhaps, for others, not so much. see how that works? everyone free to have an opinion based on their own personal experiences - diversity at its finest!

and I love monuments, Makiguchi Hall never fails to take my breath away each time I visit. same with the Taj Majal, St. Peter's Basilica, the Great Wall, the Arc de Triomphe, even the Statue of Liberty and Christ the Redeemer in Rio... now, all these never fail to peg out my that's fucking amazing meter, but how any of these "monuments" are contributing to world peace escapes me, but that's just me.

and as you're a member of the sgi-usa, clown hidden, I can certainly understand why you haven't heard the word humble as a descriptor. add together good old fashioned "American Exceptionalism" and "I'm already a Buddha", and the result isn't quite what I'd describe as humility.

on the other hand, humble is the first thing that comes to my mind when thinking of the organization and the many members I've had the fortune to meet from the Dominican Republic, or El Salvador, or Rio, or New Delhi, or the unbelievable members in Nakano or Shizuoka... just the thought of their humility and warmth and sincerity is enough to melt even my crusty heart all over again.

and, oh my sweet FSM. striking back with the truth? it's almost unbelievable that after 20 years it's still the same old "us vs. them, you're either with us or against us, we're right, they're wrong, my truth is more true than their truth", back and forth bullshit. how exactly has this contributed to peace?

I'm disgusted at the thought of all the sincere members who have left the organization, or guests leaving soka spirit meetings with their heads reeling vowing never to return, all due to fanatical and misguided "striking back". but you're more than welcome to it! for me, I'm sick and tired of making excuses for fools. it's much better to just laugh at them.

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Tue May 11, 2010 at 22:39:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

o.k.

If you say that SGI is not concerned with world peace perhaps you could explain how you come to that. Not all opinions are valid in fact some are just plain wrong.

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by: clown hidden @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 10:00:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

no need to explain...

I never said that sgi isn't concerned with world peace... you pulled that out of the above pixels, incorrectly, all on your own.

and I definitely agree with Al Franken, "We are entitled to our own opinions; we're not entitled to our own facts."

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 13:11:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I SAID YOU SAID

I said it was hard to deny that SGI was concerned with peace.
You replied: hard to deny?
for you, perhaps, for others, not so much. see how that works?

So it's not me who can't read it's you who definitely seemed to be saying something you now deny saying. You are forgiven.

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by: clown hidden @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 16:30:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

heh...

you really do have a problem with basic comprehension, it's almost laughable.

try re-reading what you took the trouble to repost, ok?

you would have a valid point if I had written, for you, perhaps, for ME, not so much. see how that works?

but that's not what I wrote, now was it? it was simply my meager effort to state the obvious... mroaks doesn't agree with you.

and you forgive me? ROFLMAO! now I'm really laughing - what a clown

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 17:45:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

mutually exclusive

As to your question:
Are you saying that you believe you can't be working for peace if you have a dispute with some group that claims they are the authority and you are completely illigitimate. I would strongly disagree.  

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by: clown hidden @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 10:12:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

reading comprehension

or lack thereof, seems to be a problem for you, clown. I find it hilarious that you would strongly disagree with a strawman of your own making! perhaps clown not so hidden would suit you better  :O)

I thought I was being quite specific. the question I posed to you is:

how exactly has [...the same old "us vs. them, you're either with us or against us, we're right, they're wrong, my truth is more true than their truth", back and forth bullshit] contributed to peace?

in no way, shape or form in this question did I dismiss anything else the gakkai may, or may not, be doing. again, you pulled this out of the pixels all on your own.

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 14:10:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I guess I don't understand you at all

When you said the back and forth didn't contribute to peace, I said they weren't mutually exclusive. Twice now you've told me I can't read. I don't think that contributes anything to the discussion.

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by: clown hidden @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 16:39:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

just to be clear

I never said you couldn't read, I was criticizing your reading comprehension skills. and it could also be that I'm not comprehending what you're writing either. sorry for the gratuitous insults and you're right, it doesn't contribute to the discussion.

what were we discussing again?  :O)

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 19:32:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

discussion

I was saying that SGI is dedicated to peace even if they are engaged in a dispute with Nichiren Shoshu. You repeatedly claimed that I could not comprehend what you were saying so I won't try to relay that. It seemed to me that you were saying that my inability to understand you was entirely my fault. I couldn't understand that either.

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by: clown hidden @ Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:02:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

no problem

confusion abounds! not your fault at all, and I was deliberately being an ass  :O)

like I said somewhere above, I just like to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Thu May 13, 2010 at 18:30:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

world peace

I have to say, I didn't read anything like what you have read from what nuevopionero wrote. Both organizations can use as their moniker that they are for world peace, and both are. However, this is not something that is going to happen in our lifetime. If we do our job well, I can see my great grand children being able to bring it about. Not us! We can only start the process, and it doesn't matter what Nichiren sect you belong to, we all have the same goal!

I need to do a little background. I am the lowest member of the 1976 convention. I had to crawl under all the floats to tighten the lugnuts. I was covered in black from head to toe, and I have now eclipsed everyone in the Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu. There is not one priest, and I do love them all, that can teach me now. And yeah, I'm arrogant about it. I, the lowliest person on earth, achieved what no one else has been able to achieve. I'm no where near full awakening, but I have dispelled the delusion and am at the point of non-regression. I'm not going back!

At the time I considered Mr. Williams as my Sensei, not Ikeda, and I can never forgive Ikeda for what he has done, but I understand what SGI is doing. I understand why they are trying to get Ikeda the Nobel Peace Prize, that BTW won't ever happen, and I understand why they have written books in his name so they can point to his achievements. The problem is that no one in the west will ever recognize a Japanese, especially when they see him as a cult leader. It just isn't going to happen no matter how many Honorary Doctorates the man has. The strategy has failed!

Likewise, Nshu's strategy has also failed. No one in the west will recognize Nichiren as the True Buddha, and we shouldn't. The Gohonzon is the True Buddha, not Nichiren, and I believe every sect could accept that.

The Dai Gohonzon was created for the Kaidan. It doesn't have any special properties that any other Gohonzon has other than it was created by Nichiren for the Kaidan. He understood that "paper Gohonzon's wouldn't last". Damn, what forethought! The man must be a freakin genius!

So, now you can all go back to your games.

Markp

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by: markp @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 15:26:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

:O)

oh, markp, I'm fearful that ya might get nosebleeds from the spectacular heights you inhabit as you look down on the rest of us lowly beings! mr williams as your sensei!?! never forgive ikeda!?! bwaaaahahahaha!

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 15:39:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm no sheep

Never have been, and there is no one who can teach me. I am loyal only to those that earn my loyalty. The Masters of Buddhism have earned my loyalty, but no Nichiren sect to date has. They all have their problems, notwithstanding that no one is teaching ichinen sanzen.

I really hate to have to proclaim anything, because everyone will revolt against the proclamation, but it is as-it-is. I can no longer sit in the background and have people think I am deluded like they are. My environment say's otherwise, and that is the true test.

Markp

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by: markp @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 16:32:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

thanks

for the useless info, markp, but the Einstein quote wasn't directed at you in particular, it's simply my sig line and will appear below all my comments. I guess your enlightenment doesn't quite cover blog basics  :O)

and your environment say's otherwise? wha?? you got lotus petals showering you as you walk? perhaps the street you live on is paved with precious jewels? or maybe you can see the reflection of your glowing topknot in your new granite in the kitchen?

here's a tip... how about using your lapis lazuli douchenozzle and have yourself a nice colonic. you seem to be backed up so badly that it's leaking through your keyboard.

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 19:12:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

re;

"The Scriptures and Discourses of the Great Vehicle all clarify stages and ranks. Those who fear stages and ranks will not enter into any of them. Without avoiding them and without being bound by them, when one has equanimity with respect to the nature of words and designations, there will be liberated understanding. Although we teach of stages and ranks, one must transcend stages and ranks."
The Great Calm Observation

You can ask others about my environment. I have mentioned it before, and will not mention it again.


Markp

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by: markp @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 19:25:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

re

Sorry, I've made a mistake here.  

Markp

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by: markp @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 20:38:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

so there you have it

To be corrected by the likes of you is I guess the aspiration of all bodhisattvas, however I am quite sure I will be alright without your proclamations or corrections, but I'm sure that's because I'm an idiot. But I'm not dumb enough to try and debate a self proclaimed Buddha, there's just no use. Bless you in your supposed enlightenment.

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by: clown hidden @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 16:44:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

now you're talking!

in all seriousness, clown hidden, after searching the comments you seems to have "experience" with this guy... is he for real? I mean, does he really believe the horseshit that squirts from his keyboard? gha!

and I'm right with you on this one...

But I'm not dumb enough to try and debate a self proclaimed Buddha, there's just no use. Bless you in your supposed enlightenment.

well stated.

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 18:06:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm no Buddha

Awakening is a process. There is always a beginning, and I have only stated that I think I am beyond regression, not that I am a Buddha.
My life and environment support that conclusion.

Hey! Seen the new movie Avatar? I haven't. In fact, I haven't seen any new movie in years. Play those video games? I don't, because they are conditioning you just like those movies you like to watch. Do you understand the conditioning? Do you have a critical thinking mind?


Markp

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by: markp @ Wed May 12, 2010 at 18:59:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the problem

The problem with threads like these is that they invariably descend into foulness. Defenders and attackers of SGI alike end up looking so ugly. Once the word 'douchenozzle' is used, you know that all hope of a thoughtful exchange is long gone. I am not in favor of censoring comments. I am in favor of people who resist being baited.

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by: auntie @ Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:14:28 AM CDT

sorry, auntie

for my very lame attempt at humor. in all fairness, a thoughtful exchange with that particular poster wasn't exactly my goal, and as far as I know, defending or attacking the SGI had nothing to do with it. again, I apologize for my lame attempt at humor.

if you're a moderator and feel that my comment is foul or ugly and should be deleted then by all means, please do.

In order to be an immaculate member of a flock of sheep, one must above all be a sheep oneself. Albert Einstein  

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by: nuevopionero @ Thu May 13, 2010 at 09:57:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I thought controversey was desired here

Now, I'm not inclined to continue my critique, someone mentions a douchenozzle and everyone gets so sensitive!

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by: clown hidden @ Fri May 14, 2010 at 17:50:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

holy smokes

holy smokes, please people. Look, it's very easy to understand Nichiren's practice. One must chant Namu (or Nam) Myoho Renge Kyo in a loud voice, for hours at a time, over even a short period of, say, a week or a month. Even a week of two hours a day of (O)Daimoku will proves the power of this practice. Those of you arguing here I'm sure have all chanted this much with consistency and have seen the effects on your lives (minds). Please take my advice and stop this clamoring. This is not Budd......well, it is not anything healthy. Go into the woods and chant for two hours in nature if you want to know the secret of the practice....chant in front of your cherished shrines, or chant in a dark closet. Do healthy things....hang out around children....please people you are lost in anger and wasting time. love and happiness....Daimoku is a solid practice! we cannot know what Nichiren really meant and if anyone knows how to practice correctly. Chant with a loud voice, consistently, regularly. I'm not a simpleton, I'm merely trying to persuade you good people back to the practice. you are all intelligent and are seeking happiness. go for it in your own way, alone or with people you are comfortable with! listen to your hearts! your wisdom mind is older than so-called Buddhism! LOVE Happiness. loving-kindness

Chant more (O)Daimoku when you can.

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by: plenty-moron @ Wed May 26, 2010 at 17:07:21 PM CDT

sure

I'd agree with you. I'm all for peace, love, and understanding. But that's no reason to allow small minded imbaciles to lie and slander whether they have a sense of humor or not.

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by: clown hidden @ Sat May 29, 2010 at 12:35:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No fun

Sheesh, Plenty, way to take all the fun out of it. For some of us trashing an organization (which most ex-members have left behind along time ago), or other people online (where else can you cast smart remarks and put-downs with no apparent consequences?) is all we have left.

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by: Cultmember @ Thu May 27, 2010 at 13:00:08 PM CDT

well taken, cultmember

ok, well-taken. but merely to suggest: this gives the organization you're trashing the power, because in the process you lose your power. And by power, I mean your creative and spiritual power. Spirit is subtle. You're still being influenced by the O. I'm speaking from experience. The hardest thing to do is to practice utterly alone and without an outlet of contentiousness. The sangha is probably over-rated in most cases. Practicing when all you have is the 0-daimoku and you with the vast universe inside you. It is somewhat scary but deeply liberating. Humor brings some degree of happiness and relief (I could easily indulge) but it's nothing like being truly free of all this sectarian BS. You've merely taken the vitriol and bickering and carried it over to a micro-level of zeal.  There will always be zealots, Mormoms, what have you....don't waste your time! But I understand and stand in brotherhood with you.  

Chant more (O)Daimoku when you can.

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by: plenty-moron @ Thu May 27, 2010 at 14:02:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

mormons, that is

mormons, that is

Chant more (O)Daimoku when you can.

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by: plenty-moron @ Thu May 27, 2010 at 14:40:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you're giving the O. more power

I think both top ten lists are spot-on. Still, and I have no doctrinal evidence to say this, but I can only say intuitively that these discussions give power to the O's. I mentioned this to cultmember. I am never satisfied when I stir up issues regarding the O...whether it be on a forum on within the O. It's better just to chant and try to understand the teachings, to hash out EVERYTHING, by way of the mantra...ALONE. It may or may not be the best meditation on planet Earth, there might be a better one, but it is a powerful meditation to me, and it gives me inner strength. I feel naturally inclined to "walk tall" after ODaimoku. I'm inclined to eat better, to say things with kindness. End of story. These forums always end badly. It's tough to learn there is only you and the mantra. Still, intelligent people eventually will discover that groups and clergy will disappoint them and they are left with only the ODaimoku and their own voices. My humble opinion....go it alone and become whole (ichinen?) again. It's just a form of meditation...if I go to the gym and feel better afterwards, why must I take the leap to say going to the gym is the one and indisputable way? Why bog down my life, creative power and potential for joy with this endless bickering? If one person claims to be enlightened or awakened to certain truths, we must do what we can to calm him down, and not beat him down.

Chant more (O)Daimoku when you can.

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by: plenty-moron @ Thu May 27, 2010 at 16:19:27 PM CDT

A good beating

with a keisaku is what the situation calls for.

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by: no vehicle @ Fri May 28, 2010 at 20:27:02 PM CDT

what's a keisaku? sorry

not sure what a keisaku is -- please explain. Look these blogs are doing a lot of people a disservice. Think of the allegory of Boddhisattva Never-Disparaging. It's not merely about not hurting others' feelings, it's about YOUR karma.  Independent thought is COMPROMISED, not fostered. You waste psychic energy and all the time you've spent purifying your mind IN AND OUT OF THE ORG. You create an illusion of us and them, of battle, the fearless fight, righteousness, blah blah. In their minds and your own. If you think you can sway org people you have a rude awakening coming...maybe you can sway a few, but most will become more rigid. That's Religion 101 throughout the ages. Buddhism is, among other things, about freedom. Free yourself from the org once and for ALL by not spending psychic energy on these things. We don't "deserve" this indulgence because of our years in the org. I strongly suggest that we get down to the work of changing our karma on our own terms. Otherwise, you're still in POSSESSION of something, someone, other than your own Buddha Nature.  

Chant more (O)Daimoku when you can.

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by: plenty-moron @ Fri May 28, 2010 at 22:49:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Heisoku?

Hi, PM -

I'm not sure if I am misunderstanding, but maybe the word was meant to be heisoku, which is a horsehair fly whisk that has become a symbol of a teacher in Japanese Buddhism.  Nichiren is often portrayed (in statue form) as holding a scroll in his left hand and a heisoku in his right.

If this isn't what was meant, then I don't know either.

Namaste, Engyo

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by: Engyo @ Sat May 29, 2010 at 09:43:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Keisaku

It's the stick that zen practitioners use to wake up, focus, massage, spur on, those sitting for long periods of meditation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K...

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by: clown hidden @ Sat May 29, 2010 at 12:29:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

got it, thanks

got it, thanks folks

Chant more (O)Daimoku when you can.

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by: plenty-moron @ Sat May 29, 2010 at 16:53:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]