Mentor: The Secular Version

Mentorship

Yes, this is how the term is used in normal discussion. Mentorship involves a direct, personal relationship that's all about helping another person make the most of his or her potential in a given field. In my field, i have had a "mentee" or two, and in my experience, the "mentor" also gets something out of the relationship. I don't have kids, so I don't know if it's the same as being proud of your kid when he does well. But it's a feeling of shared accomplishment and pride to see someone you've trained/guided/advised move on to positions of greater responsibility.

One Nichiren sect insists that the "mentor-disciple relationship" is the core teaching of Buddhism. First, that's not true. Secondly, if the above illustration of mentorship is what they're talking about when they say "mentor-disciple," maybe I could see, sorta, how this has something to do with Buddhism.

But the problem with this "mentor-disciple" business is that the sect has a completely made-up and ridiculous conception of what "mentor-disciple" means. To them it means that members must swear lifelong devotion to a Japanese man (Ikeda) that they have never met and will never meet. Ikeda is the one-size-fits-all "mentor in life" to millions of strangers who claim to know "his heart" because they have read "his" books (which are ghostwritten) and watched videos of him giving speeches in Japanese.

People, this is nuts. The whole "mentor-disciple" relationship as promulgated by SGI is totally divorced from what mentoring actually is.

SGI calls it the "mentor-disciple relationship" when really it is a relationship based on hero-worship and idolatry and charismatic charlatanism.

"If only I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say that the Soka skunk has changed its stripe." -- auntie

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by: mroaks @ Thu Jul 08, 2010 at 19:34:35 PM UTC

the great set an example

So if some one is a guiding force in your life but you've never met them they can not be considered your mentor? Balderdash! Not the usual arrangement but you can't deny it on that basis.

At the same time I think the proper term for what SGI is turning this into would be
Guru-Disciple.

One question, if mentor/disciple is not important then why place any emphasis on a moment of joyful acceptance, why is important that the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are followers of the Eternal Shakyamuni?

Is there no reason to take refuge in the Buddha? I don't expect I will meet him in the flesh.

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by: clown hidden @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 02:00:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

the great?

Do the great insist that millions of people swear discipleship to them? Is that greatness or psychopathic delusion? I don't even think the Pope dares to do that.

What is the example that Ikeda sets? Jetting around collecting awards, putting his name on buildings, cursing the supposed enemies of Buddhism? That's greatness?

Clown, if you don't see how SGI has perverted the meaning of the word "mentor" as well as the entirely noble concept of guru devotion, you don't want to understand.

Have you ever worked with a guru? You actually get to meet and interact with the guru (teacher.) It's a relationship not an imaginary dialogue you invent based on hearsay, videos, and someone's writings.

I'm all for learning on your own. I prefer to read websites, texts and commentaries, and chant and discuss and come to my own understanding. But I wouldn't claim that I have a "mentor-disciple relationship" with the Internet, even though it is my primary source of info.

As for taking refuge in the Buddha. Uh, yes. What does that have to do with the "mentor-disciple relationship" as taught in SGI? Do you take refuge in Ikeda? Is Ikeda the Buddha?

Implying that Shakyamuni is a "mentor" in the sense that SGI abuses the word -- a manufactured media celebrity with special status -- reveals how little you understand the meaning of the word Buddha.

We take refuge in the triple gem of the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. That's a lot different than subsuming your identity to a charismatic "holy man" who promises to lead you to enlightenment and glory.

Also, visit the former SGI member forum. Viewed through your sensei goggles, it can't hurt, right?

"If only I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say that the Soka skunk has changed its stripe." -- auntie

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by: mroaks @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 04:33:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

o.k.

O.K. I don't know what buddha or mentor means. I don't know that you do either.
Is the word unique to SGI?
http://tinyurl.com/22p5gwa

I do know that Tee Teachings of the Compassionate Buddha was published by Mentor.
Idon't know why you get upset over nomenclature.

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by: clown hidden @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 14:14:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tzu Chi

Complete with a list of awards. LOL. At least (it appears) they are doing something concrete to help people.
Part of the problem is SGI chose the word "mentor" to replace "master" which is really more accurate. But some people were offended by the word "master," given America's history of slavery. Did they change the term (shitei funi) in Japan? I don't think so. The definition of mentor is someone you know personally. You can't change the meaning of a word to suit your own purposes.

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by: Cultmember @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 15:44:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

another part of the problem

Some people are inacapable of seeing that while they may not find SGI compatable with themselves there is nothing wrong or evil about them. So they create "controversies" rather than live and let live. I am supposed to accept this as noble buddhist behaivior?
I don't think anybody should "follow" anybody but I'd like to know what crime Ikeda committed that allows anyone to say people are crazy to look up to him.

No matter how many times people say you have to know the mentor persoally won't make that a fact.
It may be the business model but that doessn't make it the only definition.

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by: clown hidden @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 16:16:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

DEAD MAN MENTORING

http://personal-development.co...

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by: clown hidden @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 17:09:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The first shall be last or something

mroaks, it would probably help if you linked to the last page of the former SGI member forum, rather than the first. Since most message boards put their most recent posts first, I assumed upon going to your link that the forum hadn't been posted to in two years.

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by: Cultmember @ Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 03:26:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

the anti-cult industry

The whole anti-cult thing I consider pure bullshit. They are always backed by fundamentalist christians (in my opinion the worst brain washing and soul killing ever devised) or by people who make their money deprograming people. Rick Ross who runs the site referenced is a deprogrammer.  I don't consider any of it credible. In fact if I made a list of ten things worth fighting, I'd put them on it.
In my opinion with rare exception it is those who are against others excercizing their freedom of belief who need to change their thinking. And while I would never say that abuses don't happen or that crazy things don't go on in the name of religion but at the same time I'll never trust these people. And I feel pretty damn strongly about it having been part of 'cults' enough to have known their victims so no one will ever convince me they are not worse than what they are fighting.  

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by: clown hidden @ Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 15:44:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Rick Ross

Becsuse I wouldn't expect you to believe anything on my account.

In 1995, Ross filed for personal bankruptcy following a substantial damages award against him in a civil trial related to the unsuccessful deprogramming of Jason Scott, an 18-year-old member of a United Pentecostal Church in Bellevue, Washington.[32][33][34] Two men had seized Scott.[35] He then experienced handcuffing, duct tape placed over his mouth, and confinement in a seaside cottage for five days. The deprogramming personnel restrained him and told him his release depended on the completion of the deprogramming.[33][36][37][38][39][40] A January 1994 jury trial for unlawful imprisonment resulted in acquittal for Ross.[38][41][42][43] A subsequent civil suit resulted in a judgment awarding Scott $5 million in compensatory and punitive damages from a number of defendants, $3 million of which the court awarded against Ross.[20][44] In 1996, plaintiff Scott reconciled with his mother and dismissed his Scientologist lawyer, Kendrick Moxon.[40] Scott then settled with Ross for $5,000 plus 200 hours of professional services.[32][40]

As a result of the legal risks involved, Ross as of 2008[update] no longer advocates coercive deprogramming or involuntary interventions for adults, preferring instead voluntary exit counseling without the use of force or restraint.[45] He states that despite refinement of processes over the years, exit counseling and deprogramming continue to depend on the same principles.[45] Stuart A. Wright has referred to Ross as one of the most important "hardline anticultists".[46]

http://www.bing.com/reference/...

What ever you may think of Scientology (I don't think well of it at all) is kidnapping and torture any less wrong? As long as they could make money that way that's what they did and if they have to soften it to stay in business the reality is they are still the same scumbags.

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by: clown hidden @ Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 15:58:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

the anti-cult cult

I held my nose and went to Rick Ross's anti-sgi message board. Some one who feels there is a legitimate complaint can point it out. All I saw were people who didn't like the way the split went down. That's what has your panties in a bunch? Pretty funny, I hear all the time how SGI should get over the split and put in in the past.  

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by: clown hidden @ Sun Jul 11, 2010 at 17:17:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]