Idiot compassion manifests in two ways

It's getting better

We are all disciples of Nichiren. Daimoku is always right even if it is exploited or misrepresented. Nonsense!

It's not nonsense although it isn't the best propagation method. When Soka Gakkai began they told the priests they couldn't sell Buddhism, and they put together something that when looked at from a broad perspective has been successful. However, if you look at the other side of the coin there has been some pretty heavy damage inflicted on Nichiren Buddhism because of them.  

I think the most damage that has occurred comes from the split between SGI and Shoshu. This split, although it lead to an opening that has allowed all the other sects into the Western Buddhist (Market) for followers, which is a good thing because it allows us to finally have choices; it has also lead to a lot of slander between the sects. Japan brought it's ugly feud to the West, fueled by SGI's own campaign against Shoshu. SGI actually instigated it.

The good thing is that now over 20 years later I see a lot of people that want to heal the wound instead of inflicting their little cuts all over the place. More and more, people are waking up to the fact that we are One Sangha, not 10 or 20.

The Independents will win out in this Japanese Feud. Of that I am sure.

Markp

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by: markp @ Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 23:37:08 PM UTC

Ought the world to be other than it is?

Markp notes, with a blend of intensity and optimism:

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More and more, people are waking up to the fact that we are One Sangha, not 10 or 20.

The Independents will win out in this Japanese Feud. Of that I am sure.
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I'd like to see the evidence for this.  I mean, it'd be great if it were true, but I don't have any reason to anticipate progress for the SGI in any reasonable direction any time soon.

There are two unrelated claims that we need to discern:

claim A:  X is objectively correct, morally good, salutary for all, or better by far than any competing force.

claim 2:  X will prevail in the real world of competing interests, including interests that see themselves (for whatever reason) as exempt from ordinary moral constraints.

I wouldn't cavil if Mr. p wanted to support claim A. But it looks to me, on first perusal, that he is conflating claim A and claim 2. As I lurch forward in time (apparently, at least) I find I am less and less a meliorist.  If we want the good to survive, let alone prevail, we have to fight for it tooth and nail.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.  
-- Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797), British statesman and philosopher

I apologize if I read into this something that isn't actually there.

dead guy

Life is just a fiendish plot to get us all killed.

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by: dead guy @ Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 23:06:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

re; ought the world

First of all I agree with you on the claims part. I indeed think that Nichiren Buddhism conforms to claim A, and I also believe that it will eventually prevail over competing religions even though they believe they are free from moral constraints.

The basis of my optimism lies in causality. The problem as I see it is that Nichiren Buddhism is divided right now with some sects practicing a form of Buddhism that is closer to Bushido than what Nichiren taught. Bushido, although it has many qualities that are like Buddhism, isn't really. We can get over that.

The Buddha say's in a chapter of the Lotus Sutra that his work is already done. I could find it for you, but I don't want to right now. So how is his work already done? Because he has planted a seed that will inevitably come to fruition because of causality.

That seed can be best explained from the standpoint of cycles of life, in that once a cycle is started it can continue to draw in more and more people throughout time. The cycle the Buddha started has its basis in reality as-it-is, and has already affected everyone on Earth to some extent. The Taliban, when they destroyed the Bamiyan Buddha's entered into this cycle from the basis of a poison drum relationship and will eventually attain enlightenment because of that relationship. That is why the Buddha can say that he has completed his work, because if you are for him or against him you still attain the same result in the end based on causality.

It is the same with Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

Markp

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by: markp @ Sun Aug 07, 2011 at 01:26:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Causality

I've always had a problem with the poison drum theory and it's origins.
Problem 1: there is no reasonable evidence for reincarnation which is what the poison drum theory, justifying a course of action, relies upon.
Problem 2: Buddism professes that it is not dualistic, but we practice Buddhism with our conscious mind which ceases to exist upon death and then something continues on after death which does not need consciousness to exist, existing beyond reality. That's Cartesian Dualism.  

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Sun Aug 07, 2011 at 06:08:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

re; causality

I see your point and it is something I don't think I can answer except to point back to T'ien-t'ai. It appears the following excerpt from the 'Prose and Verse of the Lotus Sutra' addresses this as being the Middle Way.
The following is just a partial quote so I'll provide the link to the whole thing.

The provision and reality and the appearance and the nature of the ten spiritual realms are separated apart and united together. In being divided and distinguished, one observes reality as-it-is with the great insight of equanimity and everywhere they are ultimately consistent.

When one confuses this sphere, there are the appearances and natures of the six realms, which is called the truth of this world.

When one understands this sphere, there are the aspects and natures of the Two Vehicles, which is called the absolute truth.

In reaching this without either confusion or understanding there are the aspects and natures of the Bodhisattvas and the Buddhas. This is the truth of the middle way and the highest significance.

With this insight being consistent with the mundane truth, there is no confusion about the mundane truth.

With it being consistent with the absolute truth, the absolute truth is beyond understanding.

In being beyond understanding or confusion, it is not without understanding or confusion but there is only equanimity.

And in the sphere in which there is non-duality of provision and reality, the seven ways & means are not able to make the non-dual wisdom consistent with the sphere of non-duality.
Only with the non-dual wisdom of the Buddhas is there consistency with the sphere of non-duality, and so one speaks of it being ultimately consistent.

And now in stirring the capacity of the great vehicle, we do not illuminate the different aspects and natures of the nine realms.
We simply teach that all the aspects and natures completely enter into the realm of enlightenment.

Long ago this doctrine was not taught, people reasoned that that which happened long ago was not consistent with what is happening now. Now this doctrine is taught and we recognize that that which is happening now is consistent with what happened long ago. Therefore they are said to be ultimately consistent.

First there was consistency in terms of confusion and understanding.

Next there was consistency in terms of the person, and

Finally there was consistency in terms of the doctrine.

We have taught of this very broadly, and we are not able to deal with it completely here.

http://www.tientai.net/lit/hkm...

It seems even T'ient-t'ai has problems addressing this. :)

Markp

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by: markp @ Mon Aug 08, 2011 at 02:52:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

re: causality

Thanks mark,...I think.
This reminds me of some of Nichiren's arguments. Or Kant, where you have to start over several times because you lost his original thread of discussion.

Equanimity: mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, esp. in a difficult situation.

I wonder if this definition fits with what he was trying to relate?

He also seems to be showing that there is no duality in the Buddha realm only in the "confused" realm which, I gather, would be human/mortal but that can be looked at either as potential or as dualistic.

Tequila time.

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Mon Aug 08, 2011 at 15:21:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

even better

Found another quote about this that is even better. You have to read the entire thing as it starts out with what was taught before and then refutes it.

Next, with emptiness and existence being a duality, that which is neither emptiness nor existence is non-duality. With duality and non-duality both being that which is mundane, that which is neither duality nor non-duality is the absolute.

The turns of the doctrine and the wisdom are both described like this.

How is this so? Because of the Personal Siddhanta, a person who is not awakened before hearing of Truth of Duality may become awakened after hearing of it. Because of this there are different understandings of the Truth of Duality that are not the same.

And The One That Has Come has always depended upon the Truth of Duality to teach the spirituality of the Dharma. And so there are Three Doors to the Truth of Duality. Although the Buddha's doctrines are many, they do not go beyond these Three Doors.

http://www.tientai.net/lit/hkm...

So here T'ien-t'ai recognizes that there is a duality, and that would solve your original question. :)

Markp

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by: markp @ Mon Aug 08, 2011 at 15:44:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Truth Of Duality

Ha ha ha, pretty good.
That answer actually amplifies the question in problem one. If the Buddha came to teach the truth about duality, to which there are three doors that I assume lead to the same conclusion if it is indeed a Truth with a capital "T", and in the Truth about which he speaks is there is a non-conscious absolute that does not need consciousness or sentience to exist. As a skeptical Buddhist my problem lies in that the answer is the same from every religion. In answering a question that requires leaping over the gap of not being able to understand something profound with ones' conscious mind, one must rely upon "faith" in a realm one does not posses except by a potential, and most individuals who follow "I WANT TO BELIEVE", ( sorry Mulder) acquiesce to some authority rather than personal experience. Or their person "experience" is an anecdote based on a confirmation of a bias that they hold from the same desire: I need to believe.  

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Tue Aug 09, 2011 at 15:57:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

re; truth of duality

In answering a question that requires leaping over the gap of not being able to understand something profound with ones' conscious mind, one must rely upon "faith"

There are plenty of things that are extremely difficult to understand in Buddhism, yet most can be observed to those that can open their eyes through their own conditioning.

Basically, if you can't trust T'ien-t'ai then who can you trust? I hadn't even read that part of the Prose and Verse yet, so now I'll go back and read the whole thing to see if I can understand it better.


Markp

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by: markp @ Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 01:40:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Trust vs Faith

There are plenty of things that are extremely difficult to understand in Buddhism, yet most can be observed to those that can open their eyes through their own conditioning.

Right on!

if you can't trust T'ien-t'ai then who can you trust?

Love trust. Hate faith. Chapter 4 LS. Although there is a definition of faith that includes trust. I usually equate trust as something earned and faith as something less than that and dangerous.

Looking forward to any insight you have on your readings.

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:27:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]