People on the path

I like the UUs

I've gone several times to UU services and been invited to speak about Buddhism and Cycling. Everyone is friendly and kind.  I like their commitment to social justice.

There are some local UU members who also practice Buddhism (Thich Nhat Hanh's Buddhism).  Interestingly, a local former SGI member had a Thich Nhat Hanh meditation sangha with the UUs, but there was a rift within the sangha, so they no longer have the weekly meditation practice and the former SGI member has left the UUs.

If you are looking for a place, I think UU is a nice one.

The one problem I have with it (for me) is that even though there is not much talk of God or Jesus, it's still a group based on Christianity.  Being a Jew-Bu, that's something I'm not comfortable with.

And, of course, even though my husband and I practice alone, we have found ourselves comfortable with the Nichiren Shu liturgy and our occasional contact with other Nichiren Shu members and we are members of the San Jose Temple, even though it is 6 hours away.  I'm hoping to go to the next Nichiren Shu Retreat in Seattle in the summer.  

But that's us, not you.  If you do what makes you happy and feels right to you, I think you'll have made the right choice.  

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by: Michele @ Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 22:14:17 PM UTC

UU Principles and Nichiren Buddhism

Hi,

I resonate a lot with what you have written deardenver (Hi! It's been awhile, hope you're doing well). Anyway, just some reactions before I get into the meat of this:

"I believed that Japanese people automatically understood things about Nichiren Buddhism that gaijin like me would take lifetimes to learn."

ROFL. Did you by chance read the gosho (Letter from Sado I think) where Nichiren says the Avichi Hell should have been empty because of the Buddha's teaching but then incorrigible slanderers filled it up again and these people then became Nichiren's contemporaries in Japan? Wow, not quite the nationalist we thought, that Nichiren. Anyway, though that bit of rhetoric is over the top, the point is that Nichiren certainly didn't believe the Japanese people were necessarily any better at understanding Buddhism (though he did believe they were predisposed to Mahayana, but then by his criteria so are we).

"I have serious doubts whether any Japanese religious organization can become mainstream in the U.S."

This is most certainly correct. Absolutely correct. I have a saying in fact, "What works in Japan will not work here. In fact, it doesn't even work in Japan."

We might, however, disagree on the extent of the need for revisions and the time table. There is much to be said for the beauty of traditional ways of doing things, and even Judaism and Christianity retain forms and even terms that come from cultures far away and long ago. I think religions need that kind of fairy tale quality to them for the sake of appealing to our whole being (we do have right brains too people), but not the extent that it become obscure and irrelevant and alienating. Religions also adapt to different cultures as well (zuiho bini anyone?)

"And let's face it. Nichiren Buddhists are terrible company. We're all the same -- "

I agree and disagree here. Yes, esp. online, many Nichiren Buddhists are terrible company. By the criteria of "by their fruits you will know them" we are a barrel of spoiled nasty fruit with a few good apples. On the whole, I have never had to visit a Zen Center worrying that they will throw me out on my ear or threaten me in front of my young daughter. Nichiren places (other than the Shu) on the other hand - I get trepidation. I do disagree that we are all the same. We are not all the same. I have not found much of what you describe in Nichiren Shu (if I had I would have left quickly), but it is certainly true that a lot of people coming from certain groups need to detox and rid themselves of a lot of baggage.

Okay on to UU. Please remember that Nichiren himself affirmed Shinto and Confucianism. He constantly cited Confucian texts to make moral and social points and affirmed their values. He included two Shinto deities on the calligraphic mandala. Nichiren was not against other religions - he was only against Buddhism being misrepresented by Buddhists and against people suborning the Lotus Sutra to other teachings and practices.

Now lets look at UU's own states principles and see if there is anything there in conflict with Buddhism or even Nichiren Buddhism (note that this is my opinion so I share it for what its worth and for your consideration):

The following principles in quotes comes from this site:

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/pri...

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

Isn't that what the Lotus Sutra teaches and Bodhisattva Never Despise demonstrates?

Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

That sound very much in line with Mahayana Buddhism.

Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

That is what a Sangha should be all about.

A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

Isn't this why Nichiren bothered citing things like the three proofs (documentary, reason, and empirical evidence of the efficaciousness of practice) and to follow the Dharma and not persons?

The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

NIchiren certainly stood up for the right of conscience and even argued (in Confucian terms) that dissent was the truest form of loyalty. Democracy would have confused Nichiren, but I have yet to hear of any school of East Asian Buddhism (including the NIchiren ones) reject it, or even the principle of separation of Church and State.

The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

Modern Nichiren Buddhists associate this with "kosen rufu" don't they. And well they should in my view.

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Well this is just blatantly Buddhist.

Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:

Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;

This is just what awakening is about.

Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;

This refers to the work of bodhisattvas.

Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;

This is exactly what Nichiren argued for in Kaimoku-sho. Read the beginning of it.

Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;

I think Nichiren would have affirmed the positive values of Judeo-Christianity as well as its limitations in Kaimoku-sho if he had known about them.

Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit;

I can't emphasize enough how Confucianist Nichiren was.

Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

And of course he accepted Shinto as just common sense.

These principles and sources of faith are the backbone of our religious community.

I think that you could find a lot worse places to seek for an affirmative and supportive spiritual community as a Nichiren Buddhist if there are no viable Nichiren Buddhist Sanghas in your area. There is nothing in any of these principles that I could not affirm myself.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 01:34:17 AM UTC

UU you

See, DD? A real-life Shonin says that UU is OK! Nice to know that ministers like Ryuei exist in our Buddhist tradition.

You and I have talked about this at length, so I don't really have anything to add. From my own wanderings, I have found that even within UU there are differences from church to church. Some are more cool than others.

I like that you've conducted your sangha search with an abundance of caution. I would hate to see you get all warm and fuzzy for UU and have them turn out to be jerks. You are a loyal person, and you need a sangha worthy of your loyalty. I hope you've found it.

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by: brooke @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 08:21:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great post

Presumably, these people could/can perceive or intuit truths consonant with or identical to the essence of the Lotus Sutra. Presumably, these people expressed their insights in a wide variety of ways.

I enjoyed what you wrote. Sooner or later, everyone in an organized sangha, Buddhist or not, faces the "fundamentalist question": what about people "outside the fold?"

I remember talking to a casual acquaintance who was Catholic (I'm Catholic as well) who believed that everyone who was attending a post-Vatican II version of the Mass would not get to heaven. I said "Really?" and didn't speak to him again: there are Catholics and there are Catholics. I imagine it is the same in every religion.

On the other hand, I can sympathize with the desire for a sangha. When I lived in Japan, I belonged to a group that met weekly to talk about our lives and the things we were dealing with. It wasn't a religious group but it was what I needed at the time. When I joined a similar group after returning to the U.S. I was disappointed: even that group, which supposedly eschewed religious dogmatism, had its fanatics.

As you say, the truths that draw us to religions and spiritual practices aren't restricted to any one religion. I'm fond of the story about a Buddhist hermit who, accused by a woman of fathering her child out of wedlock, takes in the child and cares for her as his own. When it is discovered that the woman was lying to protect the real father, the hermit gives her up without rancor. Either way, the hermit loves the child and gives of himself for another. As a Christian, I take that story to mean that every religion promotes loving-kindness and no-self. Anyone who believes in heaven and doesn't think Gandhi is there is several bricks short of a chimney.

I hope the UU group works out for you. Any port in a storm!

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by: pparisi @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 02:45:32 AM UTC

Those Outside really Aren't

Buddhism has from the beginning recognizes that Buddhism doesn't have any proprietary rights over the Dharma. The pratyekabuddha or "privately-awakened one" was the pre-Mahayana way of recognizing that there were those aside from the Buddha and quite apart from Buddhism who had a liberating awakening. In the Mahaparinibbana Discourse of the Long Discourses of the Buddha (Digha Nikaya) the Buddha on his deathbed is asked if others could attain liberation apart from the Buddha and his followers. The Buddha's answer is that liberation is only possible by following the eightfold path - but that is different than saying only Buddhists can attain liberation. The only part of the eightfold path that is specific to Buddhism is right view (that encompasses the Four Noble Truths) and some of the deeper implications of right intention. The rest is part of the pan-Indian traditions of both the Brahmans and even many of the other non-Vedic ascetics. Mahayana teaches that bodhisattvas can certainly appear as non-Buddhists - even as non-Buddhist deities (see chapter 25 of the Lotus Sutra).

So from the Buddhist perspective a non-Buddhist can certainly make the causes to be reborn in the heavenly realms. A non-Buddhist can attain pratyekabuddhahood. A non-Buddhist might be a bodhisattva, even a very advanced bodhisattva. The insights that were unique to Buddhism in the Buddha's day might even be expressed skillfully in other ways in other lands and times - it would still be a skillfully expressed form of the Dharma. They are all part of the One Vehicle taught in the Lotus Sutra. That does not mean all other religions or philosophies or paths are equally true. But it does mean the One Vehicle is not something that can be confined by any narrow or parochial sectarianisms. It means that the One Vehicle is expressing itself always and everywhere - sometimes more completely and sometimes less  - because the Eternal Buddha is always and everywhere trying to lead people to buddhahood - at least according to the Lotus Sutra.

Maybe in the West, we should inscribe mandalas with Rumi (Muslim), St. Francis (Christian), and the Baal Shem Tov (Jewish) to emphasize that even Western traditions are encompassed by the One Vehicle and the ongoing constant effortless efforts of the Eternal Buddha (instead of or in additoin to the Vedic and Shinto deities that are already inscribed on Nichiren mandalas)?

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 05:03:19 AM UTC

Pathfinder

deardenver,
Buddha Jones has been a part of my path and was the first sanga I engaged with after 20 years of solo practice of a practice which is now in it's 37th year. Thank you Buddha Jones. I'm now involved with a freethinker group composed mostly of skeptics  non-religious and former religious individuals. Let's face it, as a species we seek socialization. And what ever one ascribes what a Buddhist be, Nichiren or otherwise, I'm coloring outside the lines.

Here are some quotes on topic:

To avoid spiritual bypassing, transcendent truth needs to be grounded in a willingness to wade in and immerse ourselves in the stormy waves of immanence.

John Welwood

Our houses are built with foreign taste; our shelves are garnished with foreign ornaments; our opinions, our tastes, our faculties, lean, and follow the Past and the Distant....Why need we copy the Doric or the Gothic model? Beauty, convenience, grandeur of thought, and quaint expression are as near to us as to any, and if the American artist will study with hope and love the precise thing to be done by him, considering the climate, the soil, the length of the day, the wants of the people, the habit and form of the government, he will create a house in which all these will find themselves fitted, and taste and sentiment will be satisfied also.

Emerson-"Self-Reliance" (Of course Emerson was a Kantian and ascribed to a knowledge that was transcendent of consciousness)

Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.

Christopher Hitchens

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 16:47:37 PM UTC

On fire!

This blog is on fire right now with people making awesome, thoughtful comments. I don't want to mess it up....but I do want to call your attention to Mark Rogow's response, which you can read on his blog:

http://kemponhokke.blogspot.co...

Try practicing as did Nichiren and see how long before you are asked to leave the Universal Universalists. See how long for them to reveal that they are not universal universalists. Tell them they are all destined for the Hell of Incessant Suffering because they don't chant the Daimoku and you will be a disciple and believer of Nichiren Daishonin. Tell them that if they chant the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra they will experience the joy of joys, untouched by wind, water, fire, or sword

I call your attention to this response because it helps me understand something. Mainly, some Nichiren practitioners measure Nichiren-orthodoxy by how often a practitioner is exiled.

Nichiren himself was sentenced to death and later exiled to Sado Island, and was banished more than once. So banishment is definitely part of the Nichiren experience.

Being banished from a blog (as Rogow recently was) is a lot different than being forced into exile at the point of a sword. Being asked to leave a religious group, or being forced out of a group, is also not the same a what Nichiren endured. But there are echoes, you know?

I would guess that most Nichiren Buddhists know how it feels to be banished or rejected somehow because of something related to Nichiren Buddhism. Many of us are refugees from the sect wars, like a Nichiren diaspora.

Some of us -- like Joe, Michele, DD, Ryuei -- have found some way to maintain a connection to Nichiren and also connect with some iteration of sangha, whether Nichiren-based or not. Maybe this is an inevitable chapter in the life of a Nichiren practitioner -- you feel that you don't fit where you are, so you go on a journey to find the right place for you, even if it maybe turns out to be a temporary place.

No matter where you guys go or end up, I hope you'll always drop us a note now and then online to tell us what you've found.

"If only I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say that the Soka skunk has changed its stripe." -- auntie

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by: mroaks @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 20:26:15 PM UTC

Echoes

some Nichiren practitioners measure Nichiren-orthodoxy by how often a practitioner is exiled

Every religious entity has some dogma about justification through persecution. I've posted this before:

They are "the Chosen", "the Elect", "the Saved". And as such, they are "privileged" or "burdened" with a special mission on behalf  for the benefit of the world. There is only one true religion and one correct way of life; and these must be defended against inroads from other religions and secularism. Since there is only one true way, it is under constant threat. The world is thus a place of persecution. A place where there is a black and white, a Manichaean struggle between absolutes, good and evil, truth and error. There is no middle ground. "You are with us or against us." Religious narcissism.

The following means more to me than all the rest:

No matter where you guys go or end up, I hope you'll always drop us a note now and then online to tell us what you've found.

Thanks.

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 06:11:46 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

All places are temporary

Of course all places are temporary.

Also, one can be shunned for being a boor just as often (or more) than because one is standing up for a truth others don't want to hear. Of course one can also boorishly stand up for the truth. But all too often it is just boorish self-righteousness. One has to learn to discern these things.

Also, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 00:18:31 AM UTC

Only the Lotus Sutra leads to Buddhahood

From a Nichiren Buddhist perspective, I'd say that ONLY the Lotus Sutra, practiced as taught by Nichiren, leads to Buddhahood.

If I said otherwise, it would either be an expedient, or it would mean I didn't really care about what Nichiren taught.

Talking straight, I believe joining an interfaith-group would be turning your back on Nichiren.

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 21:09:13 PM UTC

The Gohonzon

"Maybe in the West, we should inscribe mandalas with Rumi (Muslim), St. Francis (Christian), and the Baal Shem Tov (Jewish) to emphasize that even Western traditions are encompassed by the One Vehicle and the ongoing constant effortless efforts of the Eternal Buddha (instead of or in additoin to the Vedic and Shinto deities that are already inscribed on Nichiren mandalas)?"

Do you mean create a new Gohonzon, or do you mean actually changing the Gohonzon?

Either way, the True Object of Devotion was inscribed by the Daishonin, He inscribed His life in it.

We cannot just change it because we decide it's time to. To do so would be arrogant.  

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 21:54:35 PM UTC

Stop thinking like a Western monotheist

The thing is that Nichiren was simultaneously Shinto, Confucian, and Buddhist. There is absolutely no denying that whatsoever. Even a cursory reading of the gosho reveals this. Of course Nichiren believed all other teachings were subordinate to Buddhism and all Buddhist teachings led to and were fulfilled by the Lotus Sutra. This is all in Kaimoku-sho. It doesn't change, however, the fact that Nichiren believed in Shinto gods, counseled people to follow local customs in regard to those gods as long as it didn't contradict major Buddhist principles, and he upheld Confucian values and virtues (and even used them to argue for the supremacy of the Lotus Sutra). Nichiren was interfaith himself. This idea of Western imperialistic exclusivism is perhaps appropriate to Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, but it is not appropriate to have this attitude as a Buddhist, even as a Nichiren Buddhist (who have Vedic and Shinto deities on our calligraphic mandalas).

Now what this means is that the monotheistic God of Western religion is also subordinate to the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha. The Western monotheistic god is at times no better than Indra (such as when appealed to in order to win a war or a football game), often seen as a creator who really isn't that different from Brahma, or in more mystical conceptions is equivalent to Maheshvara (aka Great Freedom God) but nevertheless still within the triple world. By the way, Brahma and Indra are also on the calligraphic mandala as Bonten and Taishaku.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 22:04:00 PM UTC

You don't understand the Gohonzon

The Gohonzon is not the calligraphic mandala, or at least not primarily. There are some things that people must understand.

1. The word "honzon" or "gohonzon" (same word but with an extra honorific that Nichiren didn't use that much anyway) is generic to Japanese Buddhism. All schools use it to refer to that which is the "focus of devotion" of their school and to the icons used to represent that focus enshrined in their temples and home butsudans. The "honzon" or "gohonzon" of Pure Land is Amitabha Buddha for instance. Nichiren uses the word this way in his writings but translations have obscured it.

2. In Kanjin Honzon-sho Nichiren describes the Gohonzon in terms of the Eternal Shakayamuni Buddha in the context of the Ceremony in the Air. After this description he states that it is now the time to make portraits or statues of this. Obviously Nichiren is not thinking solely in terms of his calligraphic mandala. In other writings he describes the Gohonzon as just the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha, or just the Lotus Sutra, or as Shakyamuni Buddha flanked by the leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. This is why in traditional Nichiren Buddhism there are five legitimate ways to represent the Gohonzon: as the Odaimoku alone, as a statue of the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha, as the Eternal Buddha flanked by the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, as the Odaimoku inscribed stupa of treasures flanked by Shakyamuni Buddha and Many Treasures Tathagata, or as the calligraphic mandala.

3. The calligraphic mandala itself has no set form. Nichiren produced a lot of them and there were many variations. What is consistent is that the Odaimoku is in the center and Nichiren's name is at the bottom (though not always centered beneath the Odaimoku) and Shakyamuni Buddha and Many Treasures are inscribed and also the two bijas (Sanskrit seed syllables) for the Vidyarajas.

4. In the traditional schools such as Nichiren Shu, ministers have always been empowered to inscribe their own calligraphic Omandala; though today more often than not prints of Nichiren's own calligraphy is used (but that is not necessary or mandated). If a priest wishes to inscribe local deities who he or she feels must have been at the Ceremony in the Air then they are free to. For that matter, Nichiren and his Tendai contemporaries believed that T'ien-t'ai Chih-i and his teacher Nan-yueh were bodhisattvas Regarder of the Cries and Medicine King respectively and Nichiren himself put Nagarjuna, T'ien-t'ai, Miao-lo, and Dengyo on the mandalas he inscribed (I refer to this as the lineage chart).

Now I have not heard of this actually being done because it is basically claiming that figures or teachers from other religions were just bodhisattvas in disguise and just preparing the way for Buddhism (which is what Nichiren claims for the Confucian and Taoist teaches in Kaimoku-sho and elsewhere) and that might be unnecessarily provocative, and of course such a claim is impossible to prove and so why even get into it? But the bottom line is that it would be in keeping with what Nichiren himself says of the deities and teachers of other religions - that they all fall under the aegis of the Ceremony in the Air. So for instance, he assume Hachiman and Amaterasu were there making vows to protect the upholder of the Lotus Sutra, but where are those Shinto deities mentioned in the Lotus Sutra?

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 22:18:31 PM UTC

Buddhist deities

The Shinto and Vedic deities were not put on the Gohonzon arbitrarily. Hachiman is not mentioned in the Lotus Sutra, but he is said to have given Dengyo a purple robe in 814. As far as I know, most of the other deities are mentioned in the sutras, and have a connection to Buddhism other than the fact that Buddhism spread to 'their' countries.

As for the Gohonzon, I believe it represents the Object of Devotion, and it is itself the Object of Devotion. Hence why Nichiren called it 'the supreme object of devotion', and as is upheld by Nichiren Shoshu.

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 22:29:54 PM UTC

Gohonzon

"If a priest wishes to inscribe local deities who he or she feels must have been at the Ceremony in the Air then they are free to."

- Does that make it right, or mean it should happen? Tiantai, Dengyo, Nagarjuna etc were great Buddhist sages and teachers, who in their hearts knew what Nichiren knew. hence, why they are on the Gohonzon.

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 22:32:49 PM UTC

Confucius

Nichiren believed Confucius was aware of the Buddha, and called him a true sage. In Kaimoku-sho He writes:

"Confucius declared that there were no worthies or sages in his country, but that in the land to the west there was one named Buddha who was a sage."

According to SGI's foot note:

"This is found in Lieh Tzu, an early Taoist text."

Nichiren didn't intentionally practice, or create, interfaith. It was 'fact' that Buddhism was superior to all other religions.


Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 22:39:39 PM UTC

Shinto Deities and other legends

Of course they were not put their arbitrarily. Nichiren viewed the Vedic gods of the sun, moon, and stars as universal representatives of those forces of nature for this Saha world, whereas Hachiman and Amaterasu are there to represent the gods of Japan specifically - esp. the Imperial family of which Amaterasu was supposedly the originator and Hachiman a deification of the 16th emperor.

You don't really believe literally in that story about the purple kesa given to Dengyo do you? In any case, that doesn't put Hachiman in the Lotus Sutra either except by implication. Nichiren actually argues that Hachiman is really an emanation of the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha, but there is no sutra passage that Nichiren can quote to prove that.

Anyway, the word "Gohonzon" does not refer exclusively to the calligraphic mandala, in fact it only secondarily refers to that. It is just a generic Japanese word for "focus of devotion" or "object of devotion." The Gohonzon of Nichiren Buddhism is the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha who transmits the Wonderful Dharma at the Ceremony in the Air. The calligraphic mandala and other concrete forms of the Gohonzon are indeed the Gohonzon but only as a concrete representation, the primary reality is no mere piece of paper or carving or painting. Don't let the linguistics confuse you. Nichiren inscribed the calligraphic Omandala in order to depict or portray what he believed the Gohonzon should be (as opposed to Amitabha or Mahavairochana). The Shoshu's understanding of this is wrong to begin with, and the explanations given in English by the SGI and the old NSA (or whatever it was in the UK and other places in the world) were also off-base and playing upon the ignorance of those who don't speak Japanese and didn't grow up in Japan knowing how the word "honzon" and "gohonzon" are regularly used.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryui

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 00:31:43 AM UTC

Gohonzon (Who's on it, Who's not?)

Well, I won't be doing it anytime soon. In fact, in practice, I think it is uncommon for Nichiren Shu priests to inscribe Omandalas. I get the impression that only those with very good calligraphic skills would presume to do it in the first place, unless there was some necessity for doing so.

Now I know of no reason not to inscribe local deities or personages who we may feel are emanations of those at the Ceremony in the Air - just as Nichiren assumed Hachiman and Amaterasu were present there, as well as those in the T'ien-t'ai lineage. It would be consistent with Nichiren's teachings to do so, but if you can find any gosho passage that would indicate it wouldn't be I'd be happy to consider it. But really, I think it is better not to presume to put other religious figures or culture heroes on the Omandala as it would open up too many arguments and perhaps even offend those who would feel their beliefs are being suborned or co-opted. Nichiren didn't have to worry about that in the case of the Shinto deities because by his time they had already been assimilated into Buddhism just as the Vedic deities had.

A better question would be why Nichiren never includes some figures from the Lotus Sutra into the Omandala. Why isn't Regarder of the Cries of the World Bodhisattva on there? If Nichiren included historical figures and Shinto deities who are not in the Lotus Sutra, why does he leave out such a popular bodhisattva who has a whole chapter in the Lotus Sutra? Nichiren never wrote anything to indicate why Regarder of the Cries is left out, but I have some ideas.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 00:41:13 AM UTC

I'll bite

Why isn't Avalokiteshvara, or Bodhisattva Perceiver of the World's Sounds, or Hearer of the World's Cries depicted on the Gohonzon?

Please click the "reply" link under this comment (rather than the "post a comment" at the end of the thread) to connect your reply to my question.

Tip for newcomers to this board: Clicking "reply" at the end of a comment makes it easier for readers to understand which comment you're replying to.

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by: auntie @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 07:51:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My suspicion re Avalokiteshvara

Thanks for the tip auntie.

I suspect (and this is only my opinion) that Nichiren left Avalokiteshvara (Regarder of the Cries) off the mandalas for two reasons. The first is because of her association with Amitabha Buddha, as one of the two bodhisattvas who are said to be at his side (the other is Mahasthamaprapta or Great Strength). The other is because chapter 25 of the Lotus Sutra is a very popular one for recitation, and yet from a T'ien-t'ai point of view it is a relatively insignificant chapter (compared to say chapter 16 or even 11, 12, 15, or 21). I think Nichiren wanted to shift all the undue attention away from Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva and back to what is central about the Lotus Sutra. Again, Nichiren never says this, but it is my educated guess.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 16:52:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Kannon, Kwan Yin

Ryuei, thank you. That's interesting. I have no idea why this bodhisattva (Avalokiteshvara) is not included on the Gohonszon, but I am aware of her popularity. I can understand that perhaps Nichiren wanted to put her popularity in perspective to the rest of the sutra.

This bodhisattva is popular today, too, even in the west -- the Dalai Lama is said by his followers to be the manifestation of Avalokiteshvara.

In the sutra, the description of Kannon sounds similar to me to the way daimoku "functions." In the sutra, when people are in peril, they cry out to Kannon and she comes to their aid. Similarly, Nichiren urges followers to cry out daimoku to summon aid and protection. It's almost as if crying out to Kannon is implicit in chanting daimoku.

That is, I doubt Nichiren meant to slight or repudiate Kannon by not explicitly including her. Rather, the function of Kannon is presumed, perhaps, to operate within the chanting of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo.

Just a theory.

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by: auntie @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 21:06:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Exactly, subsumed not repudiated

Yes, that is exactly it. The power and protection of calling upon other buddhas and bodhisattvas and of dharani are all subsumed within the Odaimoku. Though in Nichiren Shu we do at times recite the verses of chapter 25 and also the dharanis from chapters 26 and 28, though I think of this as a case of revering the Lotus Sutra itself and highlighting the functions of Odaimoku through these auxiliary practices (that are nevertheless directly practicing the Lotus Sutra itself).

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 22:32:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Legends of Confucius

The Lieh Tzu is hardly a credible source in regard to what the actual historical Confucius ever said or did. The historical fact is that Confucius knew nothing about Buddhism and certainly no authentic writing of Confucius (really just the Analects and perhaps parts of the I Ching) say anything about it. All these tales of Lao Tzu being the teacher of Confucius (or even the Buddha) come from Taoist texts that appear much later. References to the Buddha teaching Lao Tzu or sending bodhisattvas to China to teach Confucianism likewise come from apocryphal Chinese sources. T'ien-t'ai and Miao-lo seem to have taken some of these at face value and Nichiren cites them in Kaimoku-sho.

The real point, however, is that Nichiren acknowledged and within their limited purview accepted Confucian values and teachings, and Shinto customs and traditions. The three "religions" of Confucianism, Shinto, and Buddhism co-existed, intertwined, and worked together. Certainly the Buddhist monks like Nichiren saw the other two as subordinate and Buddhism as more profound and far-reaching - but not everyone in those days agreed. Before and after Nichiren there were Japanese who insisted that Buddhism was the shadow of Shinto gods and not vice versa, and during the Tokugawa period Neo-Confucianism was the reigning ideology and Buddhism was subordinated to it in the eyes of the government. In China and Korea Neo-Confucianism also became the reigning ideology and in the case of Korea there were even laws to oppress Buddhism and keep it locked away in the mountain monasteries. So the rivalries and arguments between Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism (or Shinto) actually never really ceased even to this day, but unlike in the West the average person always felt free to partake of all these traditions to varying degrees. So you find Nichiren citing and affirming Confucian virtues and advice, and exhorting Shinto deities to come to his rescue (or else) all the while he is arguing for the supremacy of the Lotus Sutra.

Also, Nichiren's concern was with Buddhists slandering Buddhism. He even says that those who are not Buddhists are not guilty of slander. Only if a religion tries to oppress Buddhism or subordinate it (as the Brahmans tried to do in the King Sen'yo story of the Nirvana Sutra) is there a problem with other religions. Otherwise, the other religions have their sphere of concern and Buddhism has its overarching sphere of concern. Confucianism or other humanistic traditions can deal with worldly ethics, social graces, and politics. Brahmanism/Taoism/Shinto/Neo-paganism can deal with the local deities and spiritual concerns within the triple world. Buddhism deals with the great matter of birth and death that transcends (yet embraces) the triple world. This is interfaith cooperation because these different faiths in Asia recognizes that there concerns operated in different spheres, and so a kind of division of labor came about. Only in Western religions do you see this need to annihilate anyone who is not of one's own particular creed, and blind unwillingness to see that different traditions express different concerns and that where there is overlap and contradiction rivalries can be civil and even friendly and in fact promote development.

The idea that religious traditions must annihilate one another and/or that interfaith is a bad thing is a Western disease and should not be taken up by Buddhists. As the late Nichiko Fuji who was the archbishop of Mt. Minobu when I was in training there for Shingyo Dojo told me, "Now we must have dialogue with other Buddhists and also other religions for the sake of world peace." I agree. I think any other way is a betrayal of the Lotus Sutra and sheer insanity.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 01:00:04 AM UTC

Topic

The thing is, whether we see texts as reliable or not is irrelevant, Nichiren believed them. The same regarding Hachiman and Dengyo.

Buddhists had debated with the leaders of other religions as Buddhism spread. Buddhism was found to be superior. That hasn't happened with religions today. I think if you want to incorporate other religions into Buddhism, it should be clear that they are inferior.


Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 12:30:11 PM UTC

Irrelevance

Nichiren believed them

One can use Nichiren's writings to argue that he was a very astute debater when it came to religious texts. His belief in them came from his own cross examinations of whether he found them valid in context to what issue he would argue for or against. And he also gave them all a validity or lack thereof within a contextual arena.

Your premise is false in that your asking believers to not exert the same effort as Nichiren and just believe in his conclusions. What one cannot do with Nichiren's writings is use them to justify the validity of Nichiren's beliefs outside of anything other than this is what Nichiren believed and why why he did so, which is contextual to Nichiren.

What conclusions an individual reading Nichiren should endeavor to achieve should be based upon their evaluation of the validity of Buddhism, not Nichiren's. One needs to justify Nichiren first if one is going to follow him and one cannot do that with only Nichiren. That is like saying "The Quran is true because it says so," or "Trust in the Bible because it says to."

The ironic argument which is continuously made is one of "have faith" and practice Nichiren's teachings in a effort to "prove" their validity, and thus the validity of Buddhism reaching back through the millennium: back through China, back through Indonesia, back to the creation of the council to write down the Buddha's teachings after 500 years, and then finally back to the Buddha himself. Why it is ironic is because of what faith means, which, after being exposed as faith, those who would argue for validity through faith try in desperation the change it's meaning.

In the light of proof, faith becomes irrelevant.

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 16:49:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks Joe

Could not have said that better myself. Basically I follow Nichiren by doing as he did  but in my own context. In other words I read the texts, evaluate their authenticity (as he did repeatedly in his writings), and then move on to reflect on them in the light of reason, and in light of empirical results (or lack thereof). It's all about applying the three proofs for ourselves. BTW, Nichiren did not invent the three proofs, its just standard Indian epistimology that Buddhism carried along into East Asia.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 16:56:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Buddhism was not universally declared superior

That's another thing that should be made clear - which is that in East Asia Buddhism was only dominant during certain dynasties and never uncontested. In the end, Neo-Confucianism came out on top as far as the majority of educated ruling elites were concerned in China, Korea, and Japan (this began in about the 13th century in China and Korea and from the 17th century in Japan if memory serves). Only Buddhists always felt that Buddhism was superior. If you are imagining that in Nichiren's time everyone agreed that Buddhism was the best, then you are mistaken. There were Shintoists who felt differently and Confucianists throughout East Asia who felt differently. In survey books on East Asian religion you can find excerpts from the writings of these people. There were never any great debates in any country in East Asia where everything was settled decisively once and for all. There were local debates or debates sponsored by particular emperors in a particular dynasty, but later on another emperor in that same dynasty might just decide to wipe Buddhism out. This happened in the T'ang dynasty in China. It was supposedly a golden age for Buddhism but it was in the T'ang that one of the worst persecutions of Buddhism occurred in the middle of the 9th century. The idea that there were some great debates and from then on everyone in East Asia agreed that Buddhism was the best is just a storybook fantasy, things in real life didn't happen that way. Even in Tibet, there are to this day adherents of Bon who claim Buddhism is just a shadow of their own religion

In India as well, Buddhism was never seen as the dominant or superior religion by anyone but Buddhists. Even during King Ashoka's reign this did not happen. Yet, from the beginning the Buddha assimilated the Vedic deities. A resurgent Brahmanism (what became Hinduism) later weakened Buddhism considerably in terms of its power and influence, the Muslims just finished the job in the 12th century.

So there is no principle that Buddhism only assimilates local deities after everyone agrees that Buddhism is superior. Buddhism simply starts assimilating within a generation of two of contact with a new culture. North America is a bit overdue in fact. One reason is that Buddhism's only other large scale encounter with Western monotheism resulted in its being wiped out. That is because it was a weakened and decadent form of late Indian Buddhism that encountered a form of imperialistic Islam that was still in full strength (if not its prime). Today, fragments of decadent forms of medieval Buddhism are being accepted by North American, European, and Australian romantics, kooks, intellectuals, and educated elites who are already convinced that Western monotheism is a delusion if not an outright corrupt tyrannical lie. The real question is not whether Buddhism is superior to Western monotheism. The real question is whether Buddhism's pragmatic elements will be assimilated into humanistic forms of therapy and mindful living for the upper class elites and the rest discarded as outmoded superstitions that are little better than monotheistic ones, or whether Buddhism will prove that it is more than just a form of early psychology, cognitive therapy, mindfulness, and compassionate living and that it should be respected as an integral (but living) tradition in its own right.

I think it is better not to waste time fighting other religions which are doing a great job falling apart all on their own in the light of science, reason, better education, and humanistic values. The fact is that if our global economic system really does end up squeezing out and destroying the educated middle class then all that will be left will be wealthy atheistic elites who will simply use religion to control the undereducated desperate masses of poor. If, however, the global economic system does recover and it become possible for more and more people attain and enjoy an educated middle class lifestyle, than medieval superstitious religions will simply slough off as a more scientific and humane worldview is embraced. If the first scenario happens, then the only Buddhism that will succeed will be those that appeal to the need for health, wealth, love, and afterlife insurance - in other words those that promise magical results in this life and rebirth in a pure land after death. Only the crudest most superstitious and fundamentalist forms of Buddhism will survive, except for perhaps more sophisticated forms assimilated to atheism that will be taken up as a hobby by the self-absorbed wealthy elites. If the other thing happens and the middle class survives, thrives, and becomes more open to more people around the globe, than Buddhism will have to mature from a peasant superstition or religion of mental masturbation for medieval scholastic monastics and actually become a teaching that will make sense to humane educated middle-class people but still maintain its integrity as a tradition.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 17:41:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mandala

"Maybe in the West, we should inscribe mandalas with Rumi (Muslim), St. Francis (Christian), and the Baal Shem Tov (Jewish)"

- Why not go the whole way and put Allah, Jesus, and Jehovah on the Gohonzon, LOL.

It's up to Nichiren Shu what they do, but I wouldn't agree with adding beings to the Gohonzon, because I think it's perfect as it is. I think Nichiren Shoshu, Kempon Hokke, and even SGI would agree that the Gohonzon is perfect and complete how Nichiren inscribed it.  

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 16:16:55 PM UTC

Yes, we could but probably won't

I think Allah and Jehovah are just other cultural representations of the same archetype represented by Brahma. Jesus Christ seems to represent the same archetype as Bodhisattva Universal Virtue (though some might argue other bodhisattvas here quite easily).

But no, even though I think its part of the logic of Nichiren Buddhism to subordinate other deities/archetypes to the Lotus Sutra we won't be doing that anytime soon as far as adding things to the calligraphic mandala. I agree that it is fine just the way it is. However, these other beings are by implication embraced by the Gohonzon (I mean even Mara is on the calligraphic mandala).

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 17:00:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

To clarify

"The thing is, whether we see texts as reliable or not is irrelevant, Nichiren believed them."

- To clarify what I meant here:

Nichiren believed Hachiman and the others actually upheld Buddhism [which is why He put them on the Gohonzon]. I wasn't implying that because Nichiren said something, it is fact.


Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 19:55:55 PM UTC

What religion is Superman?

Frankly, to argue about the religious affiliation of fictional characters, myths, and legends seems a bit... what word should I use?

To be blunt, other than as a metaphor Hachiman is no more real to me than Santa Claus or Superman. It's pointless to argue about whether Hachiman actually upheld Buddhism or not. Japanese Buddhists claimed he was a bodhisattva, some claimed he was an emanation of Amitabha Buddha, while Nichiren claimed he was an emanation of Shakyamuni Buddha. Nationalists argued that buddhas and bodhisattvas were simply the shadows of Hachiman and Amaterasu so that it was not that Hachiman is Buddhist but that Buddha is simply a Shinto god in disguise. So the actual affiliation of Hachiman depends on whose making the claim and no one has any evidence because Hachiman is not a person like your me. Even to associate him with an historical emperor is just a claim with no real evidence.

It's like Santa Claus. Is Santa Christian? He's certainly a big part of what is now a Christian holiday, and certainly is not Jewish or Muslim. However, many of the elements of the Santa Claus image and story are taken from much older myths - pre-Christian myths from different European countries. Santa Claus is whatever the writer makes him out to be.

Superman is another case in point. Superman was the creation of a comic artist and a comic writer who were both Jews. Yet, they wrote of him as coming from a mainstream American mid-Western farming family. Is Superman Jewish? Is he perhaps a Lutheran by virtue of his adoptive parents? Does he actually follow some Kryptonian creed downloaded into his brain by the Fortress of Solitude? Is Superman a comic book avatar of Vishnu? He certainly has the qualities of an avatar of Vishnu. Is he a celestial bodhisattva? Maybe Superman and Batman and the rest of the Justice League should be on an American mandala since they are a mythic representation of our ideals and the American spirit.

If, however, you literally believe that there is a being named Hachiman who has a Buddhist membership card in his kimono, well then I have no response to that. We are living in different realities with no common assumptions about what is real or not that would allow for any further productive conversation.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 21:01:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Santa Claus

Oh! I know the answer to this one. The historical St. Nicholas supposedly threw a bag of money through a bedroom window, saving the girls inside from being sold into prostitution. St. Nick thwarted pimps and johns! To me, this legend makes all the other Santa fluff bearable.

As you might gather, the "saint" in front of the name "Nick" indicates that the flesh-and-blood fellow was Catholic, later canonized by the Roman Catholic Church as a saint.

Santa is Catholic. So is the Easter Bunny.

Superman is Jewish. Wonder Woman is Rosicrucian.

Mitt Romney is Mormon.

:-)

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by: auntie @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 21:42:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hachiman

"Frankly, to argue about the religious affiliation of fictional characters, myths, and legends seems a bit... what word should I use?"

- Well, he is on the Gohonzon, and judging by Nichiren's writings, Nichiren seemed to view him as a protector of Buddhism, and even as a manifestation of Shakyamuni.

My main point is, Nichiren didn't just say "let's put this character on the Gohonzon because he was probably at the ceremony in the air".

[Great Bodhisattva] Hachiman was viewed by Buddhists as a protector of Buddhism. Nichiren putting him on the Gohonzon doesn't justify Nichiren Shu adding people to the Gohonzon, IMO.

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 22:32:29 PM UTC

Hachiman

Actually my main point is that Nichiren did in fact put Hachiman on the calligraphic Omandala (remember Gohonzon has a broader meaning) because he personally believed Hachiman must have been at the Ceremony in the Air simply by virtue of the fact that he personally believed he was an emanation of Shakyamuni Buddha (even though the majority of his contemporaries viewed Hachiman as an emanation of Amitabha and some others viewed him as the one who emanates buddhas). Nichiren didn't "know" anymore than anyone else whether Hachiman was at the ceremony in the air. And how could he?

Hachiman's reality is on the level of Superman, Santa Claus, Zeus, or Odin. Let's say everyone in Norway suddenly converts to Buddhism and all the Asatru adherents go along with it. In a few generations the would be be saying that Thor and Odin are Dharma protectors. There would then be as much justification to say that Thor and Odin are Dharma protectors as to say Brahma and Indra or Hachiman and Amaterasu are Dharma protectors. At that point, there is no reason not to also presume they were at the Ceremony in the Air and thus can be inscribed on the calligraphic Omandala.

This is all about how the indigenous myths and metaphors are interpreted as archetypes and how those archetypes are assimilated (with some refinements and revisions) into the framework of Buddhism. We are not talking about people with addresses, facebook pages, and social security numbers that we can actually pin down and ask them what their actual religious affiliation and political views are. It's all a matter of who is telling the story and how the storyteller decides to define and present these archetypes.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 22:42:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Cult question

I don't feel I have the information base to comment on the religious significance of various mythological entities or what profound meaning may be supported by addressing such questions. I do believe, not without evidence, that I am qualified to discuss how ideas work.

One major hallmark of a cult is intolerance of the possibility of thinking differently from the cult. Those with different opinions lack relevant information. If they had access to relevant information and don't agree with the views of the cult, then they haven't understood it properly. Departure from accepted views is only caused by "weak faith", "arrogance", "lack of study", "refusal to listen", "bad friends" or other "devilish influences."  

Because, hey, we're absolutely right.  If you disagree, you must be harboring errors.

I do not think Dear Denver's references to her former group as a cult are misplaced at all.

To be within such an organization does not mean that you must be gung-ho about a cultish way of thinking and acting. But the organization undoubtedly fosters such action and thinking.  It rewards this thinking with esteem.  It uses people who think and act this way as resources, through promoting them to positions where they can influence more persons.

That's what I've seen, at least.  But, hey, I'm dead. What do I know?

Life is just a fiendish plot to get us all killed.

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by: dead guy @ Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 00:10:43 AM UTC

Other religions

I do know what you mean though, Ryuei, about other religions paving the way for Buddhism, as Nichiren taught in Kaimoku-sho. I also believe that the ethics and morals or the provisional Buddhist teachings are still important.

I know we, and Nichiren, said the only precept necessary is to uphold the Lotus Sutra, but many of the precepts are still important, like not killing, not stealing etc. I doubt Nichiren meant people can do whatever they like as long as they chant.  

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 18:48:40 PM UTC

No Precepts

I know we, and Nichiren, said the only precept necessary is to uphold the Lotus Sutra

That's a good point Steve and one that should be constantly addressed especially when religious organizations continuously create precepts to herd their followers.

but many of the precepts are still important, like not killing, not stealing etc. I doubt Nichiren meant people can do whatever they like as long as they chant.

Precepts, or common sense fueled by ones humanity? I think there is a different between the two in this context. One of the common erroneous assumptions made by people of faith is that they associate their humanistic qualities with their faith of choice. As if without their faith they would kill and steal. They propose that people of non-faith cannot have any moral backbone, which is ridiculous as it is false. When confronted with the ole "Stalin was an atheist and killed 10 million of his own," I answer "And Hitler was a Catholic, but what they did have in common was empowerment from fundamentalists".

This quote from Nichiren has been used insistently by those fighting the dogma super imposed upon the meaning in Nichiren's writings:

I, Nichiren, am not the founder of any sect, nor am I a latter-day follower of any older sect. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts nor breaking them. I am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, divorced from both the possession of wisdom and the absence of it.

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 16:38:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Precepts

Good points, Joeisuzu.

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 22:33:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dharanis in Lotus Sutra

Why aren't the Dharanis of the Lotus Sutra translated into English?

Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 01:39:13 AM UTC

Because they are transliterated not translated

The dharanis were not translated into Chinese. It was felt that the power of them was in the sound and not in the meaning. So in the Lotus Sutra the dharanis are transliterated using Chinese characters that were chosen for their sound and not meaning. That is why when the Lotus Sutra is translated into English, translators either reproduce the sounds of the Chinese characters or use the original Sanskrit. For a long time it was though that there was no meaning to dharanis but scholars have discovered that in fact many (though I do not believe all) do have meanings. The book "Source Elements of the Lotus Sutra: Buddhist Integration of Religion, Thought, and Culture" by Keisho Tsukamoto actually contains translations of the dharani from the Lotus Sutra into English. They mainly seem to be invocations to a feminine deities (or deity), or at least that is what I remember it's been awhile since I read it. Oh, and again, even though dharanis can in some cases be translated, they were put together mainly for the power believed to be contained in the sound and I can certainly attest that in their Sino-Japanese form they have a very powerful affect when chanted.

For an interesting example of how Japanese dharani chanting sounds check out this track from the movie Akria:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

By the way, none of that is from the Lotus Sutra as far as I can tell. Also the track is entitled "Shomyoh" but really most of it is composed of different samples of dharani chanting, though there are some bits that are shomyo. Listen to the whole track though, because the samples are quite different throughout.

Here's a clip of dharani from the Lotus Sutra being used by Nichiren Shu priests doing Kito.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 03:58:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dharanis

Thanks for explaining, Ryuei.


Namu-myoho-renge-kyo

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by: Steve Milburn @ Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 22:36:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Cool Runnings...

...Is a Jamaican slang that translates to "Peace be the Journey." That is my wish/prayer for you, Dear Denver.

Do you really need a sangha? I don't know. It feels like you want one - so cool runnings. Your walk on the path showed that everything/everywhere is a sangha if you choose to view it as such. Though there is something to be said for a regular gathering of like minds with similar ambitions. It's kind of like with a family. The purpose of a family is to nurture, instruct and protect its' own. When that goes awry (and it often does) then, the dysfunction begins. The difference is, that group of people is still your family regardless of any ties you may or may not sever. A sangha does not have that "ties that bind" guilt attached to it so you can just take your beads or your bible and go seek a different one, any time you like. Again, peace be the journey.

As for which sangha is right for you? Keep searching until you get it right! I have a friend who has 3 children; each child has a different father. Someone once asked her, in an attempt to embarrass her, " You mean none of your 3 children have the same father?" Her answer was matter of factly, "Hell no! You think I'd make the same mistake more than once?" That pretty much sums up how I feel about the sangha search - especially since it took me 3 different times with the same cult (ah hem) sangha to learn that. Peace be the journey.

Must the sangha you choose be an overtly Nichiren sangha? No. But you must to keep your "cult meter" on high alert. Just like with the dysfunctional family analogy, be awake to the facts as they unfold and if you ever think/feel that the emperor is naked - he is. Then, run Forrest, run!

I've noticed my propensity to align myself with cult mentalities - feeding that desire for "family". The last sangha I visited was Eckankar - they chant/sing the word "Hu', calling it a love song to God...I like some of what they have to say but ultimately it's not for me and my sangha search continues.

Ultimately it's about YOU not about THEM, who ever they turn out to be. My favorite Brad Warner (Zen Buddhist) quote is, "There's this notion in Buddhism about saving all beings - it's not about rescuing them - it's about saving them from all the shit I would do to them." Peace be the journey.

What's so great about UU? ...Is for you to discover. Can you honestly respect the Bible and other holy books as sources of wisdom? ...Do you want too? By joining a UU church are you somehow slighting the Lotus Sutra? If you join a new gym are you somehow slighting the YMCA you used to belong to, even though you may exercise more fervently at the new gym than you ever did at the Y? If you join a UU church are you still a Nichiren Buddhist? You may have likely been (lived your life as, treated people like, thought and spoke as though...etc.) a Nichiren Buddhist long before you ever knew Nichiren Buddhism existed, which is why it resonated with you when you eventually discovered it. What are the responsibilities and requirements of a Nichiren Buddhist anyway? ...Are the gray areas that lead back to a cult mentality. You remember the ones I mean and I know you also know the ones I don't mean. Again, peace be the journey.

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by: RougeBuddha @ Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 21:03:26 PM UTC