Regarding Full Gongyo with Parts A, B and C

Mumbly gongyo

Huh. You'd think that a mp3 file or video of full, slow gongyo would be easy to find. Not so. I hesitate to post this because it's such a lazy, mumbling, armchair gongyo with sloppy pronunciation. I know, I sound like such a gongyo scold, but you're doing gongyo, not leafing through a magazine, man! He does recite A, B, and C. He starts B at the 1:53 mark.

http://youtu.be/iWmKYjc-0eE

The best part is when a little child appears at about 6:50 and daddy can't be bothered because he's busy being a Buddhist.

"If only I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone say that the Soka skunk has changed its stripe." -- auntie

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by: mroaks @ Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 22:04:03 PM UTC

Gongyo App

You can get a smart phone app with A,B,and C being recited called iGongyo.
Comes with a Gohonzon in a butsudan too.

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 02:33:04 AM UTC

I couldn't find anything to recommend

Hi everyone,

I scouted around on youtube and even used Google and I could find no videos or mp3 I can recommend. All too many of them are by Soka Gakkai members who are going too fast and mispronouncing things. Tina Turner is esp. terrible, which is a real shame because I know she has the voice to do a very nice version. Other videos are by monks (not sure if they are Nichiren Shu) who are going entirely too fast and one put out by some group in China that is entirely too slow. I think I am going to have to learn to do a set myself and upload them. I just need help from someone in San Francisco who knows how to upload videos because I'm not very technical.

Anyway, people should know what A, B, and C really are.

A is actually the first prose section of chapter 2 of the Lotus Sutra, with the final portion about the ten suchnesses repeated three times in order to acknowledge the three truths of emptiness, provisional reality, and the Middle Way. This is explained in the gosho "The Doctrine of Three Thousand Realms in a Single Moment of Life" which is #180 in volume II of the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin put out by SGI in 2006. It is not an authenticated gosho but it very well could be study notes that Nichiren compiled early on and is fully consistent with the T'ien-t'ai teachings Nichiren always relied on and things he himself wrote in authenticated works.

Section B is actually the prose section of chapter 16. By the way, there is a very important passage in the prose section where the Buddha says that there is no birth or death in the way he sees the triple world (the worlds of desire, form, and formlessness that in Buddhist cosmology encompasses the six lower worlds of transmigration). So you can't really correlate A with birth, B with life and C with death as the actual theme of A is the condensed teaching of the One Vehicle, and chapter 16 is about the unborn and deathless nature of the Buddha (with C just reiteration B).

Section C is the verse portion of chapter 16 which as I mentioned just reiterates what is said in the prose section.

To really understand what these and other chapters are about I would recommend reading Shinjo Suguro's Introduction to the Lotus Sutra.  It can be found at amazon here:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduc...

Nikkyo Niwano's Buddhism for Today is also good, however it doesn't address some specific teachings of Nichiren Buddhism the way Suguro's book does, though it does assume the reader is learning about Buddhism from scratch and so it goes into a lot of general Buddhist teachings for the sake of beginners. I have been told that much of it derives from Nikkyo Niwano's study of Nichiren Shu writings but with his own particular way of relating things. It can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism...

Thich Nhat Hanh has also written a commentary on the Lotus Sutra, but I have three critiques of it: 1) it is mostly a rehash of things found in his other books about mindfulness, 2) it is more from a Zen and Pure Land orientation than T'ien-t'ai let alone Nichiren, 3) it isn't so much a commentary on the Lotus Sutra as using the Lotus Sutra as jumping off point for his own teachings. I do like the chapters dealing with the bodhisattvas in chapters 23-28 of the Lotus Sutra but from a Nichiren/Tien-t'ai point of view those are not as important as the earlier portions that he glosses over.

If you really want something heavy duty, read Taigen Dan Leighton's Vision of Awakening Space and Time, which focuses on how Zen Master Dogen utilized chapters 15 and 16 of the Lotus Sutra. There is a good section on Nichiren's reading of the sutra in this book (I was his consultant actually) but even apart from that the things said about chapter 15 and 16 in this book are very challenging and thought-provoking and go beyond sectarian boundaries. Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Visions-...

I guess I should also mention Stories of the Lotus Sutra by Gene Reeves who also recently translated the Threefold Lotus Sutra. It mostly focuses on just the parables however, as does another book on the Lotus Sutra by Sangharakshita called Drama of Cosmic Enlightenment: Parables, Myths, and Symbols of the White Lotus Sutra.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 00:29:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

READING

I have all those books except for Drama of Cosmic Enlightenment. I have only made it half way through Thich Nhat Hanh's book. The others are definitely worth reading. Especially Vision of Awakening Space and Time which was so good I've bought several volumes of Dogen's lectures.

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 16:45:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gongyo instruction

Ryuei, for what it's worth, I would be interested in watching your instructional videos. I feel that I know gongyo very well, but I would like to do it in good form. Thanks.

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by: auntie @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 18:52:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

POSSIBLE ANSWER

You may be able to get audio of A,B,C, gongyo from Kempon Hokke,
http://kemponhokke.blogspot.co...

I searched but came across no other.
I'm interested in your correlation between the stages of life and the sections of the sutra. Would you say any more?

Philip

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 00:37:06 AM UTC

Kempon

I am curious how the Kempon Hokke do gongyo. I went to the link you provided but could not find an e-mail address. Also, ALL CAPS indicates shouting. Are you SHOUTING?

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by: auntie @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 18:53:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

email

If you click on the name of the poster, I believe you get the email.
Philip

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 21:01:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I guess not

I went and tried and the email wasn't in the profile.

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 21:04:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

the address

illarraza@yahoo.com  

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 23:01:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

ALL CAPS

I am aware that some people view writing in all capital letters to indicate shouting. I don't think that means that you can't have titles in capital letters. Headlines are commionly in all capitals. It doesn't mean I'm shouting it usually means I'm too lazy to change when I realize I've written half in capitals and I just continue on. Did you know that up until the 8th century there were only capital letters?

Philip  

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 00:13:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

All CAPS before the 8th century?

Does that mean that people couldn't hear as well back then?


"Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life and continue to chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo no matter what happens." - Nichiren Daishonin

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by: Ryuei @ Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 02:11:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I haven't heard that

I don't know if people's hearing was worse, but it's an accepted fact that writing in all caps makes things less legible and that probably accounts for the high level of illiteracy back in those days.

Philip

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 02:55:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Illiteracy

it's an accepted fact that writing in all caps makes things less legible and that probably accounts for the high level of illiteracy back in those days.

What are your sources of this accepted fact?
Are you talking about post Roman Western Civilization including Greece and Egypt, or Persia and China too?  I have read many essays about keepers of the sacred writings and illiteracy was a general rule for the masses opposed to being attributed to something as simplistic as "I can't read this because its all caps". Unless you were clergy, you couldn't read period. No offense, but I'm just saying...

 

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 16:18:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

not universal

I'm only talking roman lettering. I don't think it applies to arabic, sanskrit,chinese, or swahili (which now uses the roman alphabet).
Many languages don't have capital letters probably because they are much more polite and civilized compared to the english speaking countries.
I certainly don't mean to imply that you should accept something just because it is a commonly accepted fact, I don't.

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 17:06:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

if you think I just make this up

Do a little research
http://www.laurenscharff.com/c...

Philip

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 17:27:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not implied

Thanks,
Never meant to imply you made anything up. It was, however, a broad stock you painted and I still believe your premise, capitalization leads to illiteracy in the 7th century, is false.  Just was interested in your sources. The study is quite interesting in spite of the fact it was done in East Texas, and I do mean that as a pejorative. I again do not see how this study in email correspondence correlates to literacy capacity in the 800's in Western civilization.

Your point about Roman lettering, opposed to Chinese characters-Egyptian hieroglyphics (or say Germanic Runic even though technically one of many foundations for western language), is well taken.  

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 19:13:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

what can I say

It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Unfortunately for people living back then they had to make do without Sesame Street or Hooked on Phonics. Worst of all they lived in the middle day of the law when the dharma was in decline, there was no proof, and enlightenment was for the most part an impossible dream. Why bother learning to read if it's going to be Beowulf over and over again, I don't think they had much else.

Philip

 A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality.

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by: philipjamesbrett @ Fri Feb 03, 2012 at 02:01:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Middle Day

Worst of all they lived in the middle day of the law when the dharma was in decline

Ha ha,...Sesame Steert or Beowulf?! Did they know or care anything about dharma or karma in that cave in Scotland? Only that they were born and Jesus was their salvation from life?

Bother to learn to read?! Are you fucking nuts!

Don't let being alive ruin your day.

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by: joeisuzu @ Fri Feb 03, 2012 at 04:54:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]