Chanting Works? What Does That Mean?

What is prayer?

What you've written reminds me of a discussion I had recently with another chanter. He was telling me how he expresses his prayers in front of the Gohonzon. I said flippantly, Why do you think that the only time you're praying is when you're in front of the Gohonzon? After a brief argument, we settled into an engaging back and forth about prayer.

All our thoughts, words and deeds contribute to and express our karma. Is it deluded to think that some extra-special thoughts or words express or contribute to our karma in an extra-special way? No, this should be obvious. Some actions -- such as harming someone else, even unconsciously -- are obviously more serious than other actions, such as walking outside to pick up the newspapar.

And yet, as DD believes, karma is unfathomable. We do not and cannot fully know the effects that even our most seemingly insignificant thoughts, words and deeds will have when refracted in the prism of eternity.

I am of the belief that all our thoughts and words (actions, too) are a type of prayer. We do not know where these prayers go or how they affect our lives or the lives of others. We just have to let it go and not be attached to outcomes.

Chanting can be looked at as an extra-special prayer or "cause," I suppose, but I prefer to see it as a time of balancing and focusing. Chanting is like waking up and stretching a bit before we get out of bed so that we don't groggily trip over something or run into walls. It is a way of orienting ourselves in the world, waking up a little so the rest of our thoughts, words and deeds are more centered and thoughtful, rather than random and inelegant.

I don't mean to be definitive. I am sharing thoughts, as in the spirit of your post, DD.

How do we know that chanting "works"? Chanting works when we get what we want, and it works when we don't get what we want. How can we tell the difference? Does it matter? The question of whether chanting works is one of faith.

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by: auntie @ Thu Oct 09, 2008 at 14:06:09 PM CDT

Coincidence

Correlation, causality...the "c" word you didn't mention is "coincidence." Some who are not familiar with chanting tend to dismiss "benefits" as mere coincidence. I think Cris Roman talked about this in his book, in a section about Carl Jung.

The longer I practice, the more I learn that there's no such thing as coincidence. The challenge is learning to respond to seeming coincidence in a way that's not superstitious. For example: I ran into an ex-boyfriend at a party. Strangely, I had just been thinking about him and sort of missing him. I could go all nutty and interpret this as a superstitious sign that we are meant to be together again (we're not, trust me) or I can take it as further evidence that we humans are connected at deep levels and deepen my gratitude for this amazing universe.

Denverdearie, what I think you're getting at is how to move beyond a superstitious understanding of benefit, ie. "Say the magic words, get the magic reward." Getting beyond this is crucial in developing spiritual maturity, which is what I'm trying to do.

The idea of benefit goes to the heart of practice -- as you said, would anyone still chant if they didn't get benefit? I sense the whole Nichiren community in the U.S. is trying to grow up. Growing up about what it means to benefit is the next big step IMHO.

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by: brooke @ Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 16:00:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Chanting works"

Very nice ... (all the thread and comments).   Let me throw a couple wrinkles in ...
First, when we chant to / through the clear lens of the Gohonzon) Then we are seeing (I propose) in a non-conscious manner where to place our feet (metaphorically). When we don't seemingly arrive at the obvious place we thought we ought to by virtue of our practice, then we are simply reminded that we can't possibly know all of the intricacies of our karmic 'footprint'. And won't ever know them.
Secondly ... my sect says that in this Age of the Law, there actually are no Kenyaku Benefits only Myoyaku benefits.
jccampb

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by: jccampb @ Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 18:03:15 PM CDT

You mean misappropriate

DD wrote:

Plus, it's a good example of how the Club appropriates the mantra.

I think you mean the Bowling Club misappropriates the mantra. They take something that's not theirs and claim corporate ownership of it. Did you know the Bowling Club once sought to copyright the phrase Nam-myoho-renge-kyo? The arrogance burns.

Where do I go to report mantra theft?

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by: mroaks @ Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 14:04:22 PM CDT

Chanting and its supposed or real effects

Just to tell you all,

I have been reading and re-reading the thoughts you have expressed about the "benefits" of chanting NMRK and what you have said is so profound it has called into question my whole notions of what are the results that I get, and what I have gotten, out of my nearly four decades of serious practice.  Just to say, thank you for such seeking minds and thoughts.

In my earlier years, I pursued a Master's in ceramics, of all things, right when politics torpedoed the arts.  However, I chose to do my thesis on the subject of "Creativity, Discovery of the Unknown Mind", and I learned a lot from that inquiry.

According to available research, if one is right-handed, the left side of the brain is the analytical side and it takes in and takes in more and more information.  The opposite is true, as you may gather, if you are left-handed.

Most of us are conditioned by our education, vastly deprived of the artistic/creative other side of the brain, to make decisions based on only one half of our brains.  "These are the observable facts, ergo, wham, this is so!"  

Not so.  If we want to be, in fact, contemplative, processing, and evolved beings, we must be aware and in contact with the other half of our brains and learn to let these two communicate with each other so that the contrapuntal nature of the highest level of thinking can be enabled.  Truly informed, creative decision-making is due to this process.

When I got stuck, dead-walled, frustrated as an artist, I asked myself this question:  "Why am I stuck?" and I targeted my research on just this problem.

What I found out was that my left-handed brain, in my case (right-hander that I am) did not have enough info to manipulate in its subconscious, huge way, to come up with an entirely new conception of what it was that I wanted to understand in a new, creative way and express.  

I learned then that I needn't be frustrated by this, but to just understand the process and continue to feed that left brain all the info it wanted:  images, facts, research, thought, etc.  And it mulled and mulled.  I learned to celebrate that.  When it got ready, having juxtiposed enormous concepts in ways my literal brain could not possibly do, zowie.  Things came out that I couldn't have imagined would have happened otherwise.

So, I submit, that for those of you who have written such sensitive and observant posts, thank you.  I think about and re-read what you have said nearly every day, but still don't know what to say back to you, or to me.

And for those of you who provide the bright spots in new sites and cultural and personal music, thank you, too, for things unique and nourishing.

Regards,
Armchair

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by: Armchair @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 01:44:19 AM CDT

Forgot a part/"indendum"

I wrote this late last night:

I learned then that I needn't be frustrated by this, but to just understand the process and continue to feed that left brain all the info it wanted:  images, facts, research, thought, etc.

I left this part out:

The left brain then transmits all the "factual" or "formative" info to the right brain, the abstract, creative half, where huge blocks of information are juxtaposed, compared, assimilated, tried out in new ways and then, "zowie".  Out comes something entirely new and creative and, hopefully, given it's been feed good information, meaningful.

I learned to celebrate that.  When it got ready, the right half of the brain, having handled enormous concepts in ways my literal brain could not possibly do, creative productions, concepts, and thoughts emerged. Things came out that I couldn't have imagined would have happened otherwise.

Unfortunately, no way to edit replies!!

Best,
Armchair

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by: Armchair @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 13:59:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Jill Bolte Taylor

Hi Armchair -- Your comments reminded me of the video that has been making the rounds on the Web, and which I strongly recommend:

Jill Bolte Taylor: My stroke of insight.

Jill Bolte Taylor got a research opportunity few brain scientists would wish for: She had a massive stroke, and watched as her brain functions -- motion, speech, self-awareness -- shut down one by one. An astonishing story.

If you haven't seen it, it's well worth the 20 minutes.

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by: brooke @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 14:16:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]